Question:
> Sorry to disillusions you, but size does not > always matter.
It does to me. > San Sebastian(SS) has a beautiful bay, probably > the best food in Europe if not the world, an > interesting old quarter with certainly the best > tapas in Spain. Not to mention a unique culture, > language and sports.
Ho-hum. > To dismiss SS on the basis of population is > similar to dimissing Bethlehems significance to > Christianity on the basis of its small > population.
I’m not a religious person, so Bethlehem means nothing to me.
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> > > > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > > > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol. > > Why not go somewhere different next time? > Me neither, but after a couple of years of visiting the same city I would be > tempted to try somewhere else. Paris is just so hackneyed. Rome, Barcelona, > Budapest, Vienna and Prague are all friendly, romantic, safe, and have > immense amounts of their own form of magic to offer that it seems a shame > people miss out on them. Variety being the spice of life!
I don’t know whether it applies to any individual, but it should be noted that returning to Paris every year does not preclude visiting other places as well. I return to Paris _at_ _least_ once a year — though for me it is now a short trip. And I have friends from the US who have returned to Paris multiple times, though not _only_ Paris: as a major transatlantic air hub, it is easy to fly into Paris for a few days, then go on to other locations. > Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense volume of tourism there. As > such, it’s hard to find those out of the way places where the patrons are > predominantly locals. Each to their own.
FWIW, I haven’t found this to be the case. Even in the center of the city, there are bars and cafes off on little back streets where the patrons are (or at least seem to be) predominantly locals. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org> <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html>
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Following up to Mxsmanic > Do you think St Sabastian is dull then? >Never been there, no desire to visit. With a population of 180,000, I don’t >see how it could possibly justify a trip.
Sorry to disillusions you, but size does not always matter. San Sebastian(SS) has a beautiful bay, probably the best food in Europe if not the world, an interesting old quarter with certainly the best tapas in Spain. Not to mention a unique culture, language and sports. Bilbao has probably twice the population of SS and it has a Guggenheim Museum, is it more interesting than SS? No! To dismiss SS on the basis of population is similar to dimissing Bethlehems significance to Christianity on the basis of its small population. In my experience some of the smallest places in the UK (Wasdale Head for instance) are also some of the best. > they have winter, they also have northern > Spain, as above. >I watch the weather in Europe. Spain is too hot for much of the year. Even >southern France is too hot in certain seasons.
As I said, winter happens every year and is reasonably predictable. Its all a matter of timing it so you arrive in the cool bit. Not difficult for the discerning tourist. — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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Following up to Mxsmanic >In fact, I can’t think of any single sight anywhere that justifies a >long-distance trip.
Everest >However, a city with lots of interesting sites overall >may justify a trip. This is certainly the case for a number of the world’s >largest cities, depending on what you like.
I doubt there is a constant ratio between "sites" and size. Los Angeles and Mexico City at one end possibly and Venice, Florence and such like at the other. In any case the essence of a place and its worth as a destination have little to do with the quantity of its tourist sites. For instance when I walked to the source of the Thames I didnt visit a single "site" (obviously I walked past a number) the value was in the evolution (or should that be devolution?) of the river and England from industrial to city centre to suburb to rural. (BTW The first man to jump the river kitty was a good idea and in practice goes to the alert rather than athletic). — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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> Following up to John Stolz >> Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found >> interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like >> big cities, as they usually have more to do. >I agree – except for Paris > Yes, nothing to do at all in Venice, Florence, Milan, Prague,
Don’t forget the dull-as-hell Istanbul, Krakow, Copenhagen… — DFM
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[snip] > I tend to like big cities because smaller cities often have only a handful > of worthwhile attractions. After you’ve seen the world’s biggest ball of > twine and the giant statue of Paul Bunyan, there’s nothing left.
I tend to like ‘em either really large, or fairly small. In the latter case only for a day or so however. Even if there is no ball of twine, simple features of the infrastructure are interesting to me. What people drive, how they park them, do they have garages, what’s in them, where are their churches, how old are they, how many restaurants/bars/grocery stores are there. These kinds of things are easily observed often in very small towns. As towns grow, you have to start covering more ground to observe the "whole town". Of course, once you get to really large towns, they are often formed of a bunch of small neighborhoods which have the same feel as those small towns in many ways. > Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense > volume of tourism there. As such, it’s hard > to find those out of the way places where the > patrons are predominantly locals. > Try supermarkets, IKEA, and do-it-yourself stores. Tourists have little > reason to visit these places, so the clients are almost always locals.
I’ve started making it a point to visit grocery stores in my travels. They are interesting in a cultural sense, if nothing else to see what consumes the most square footage. I’ve also begun to find they are great places to get a simple lunch. I also find it both a bit funny and convienent that they are great places to buy simple gifts for friends back home. A box of chocolate cookies in a box all in french is vastly cheaper than anything at the duty free, and since often what I’m probably getting is the "store brand" it is also something they’d never be able to get back home. But they are "french" cookies!!!! > Public parks often have a high proportion of locals, too. So do government > offices, although the inside of a Social Security office isn’t very > glamorous.
There is often a "business district" in large towns that at lunch time, or in some cultures early evening, where it will be absolutely packed with locals. I find them excellent chances to see locals "in their natural habitat".
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> Yes, nothing to do at all in Venice, > Florence, Milan, Prague, Budapest, Vienna, > Amsterdamn…
They have to have enough to do to justify a trip. For example, I’ve seen travel books that claim that the Louvre _alone_ is worth a trip to Paris, but I do not agree, not by a long shot. There are a couple of "main attractions" in the museum, and you can see them all in about two hours, but unless you’re an art freak who absolutely must see everything, I can’t imagine the Louvre museum justifying a trip to Paris (except from the suburbs, maybe). In fact, I can’t think of any single sight anywhere that justifies a long-distance trip. However, a city with lots of interesting sites overall may justify a trip. This is certainly the case for a number of the world’s largest cities, depending on what you like.
Response:
> Do you think St Sabastian is dull then?
Never been there, no desire to visit. With a population of 180,000, I don’t see how it could possibly justify a trip. > they have winter, they also have northern > Spain, as above.
I watch the weather in Europe. Spain is too hot for much of the year. Even southern France is too hot in certain seasons. > a very unusual view of what might make a city > interesting.
It is based on the notion that no single attraction justifies a trip. To justify a trip, you need multiple attractions, and the larger the city, the more likely that it will have many attractions in one place. Paris is a great example of this, as are some other large cities. There are exceptions to the rule. Some people like Venice even though it is not large, and I don’t know that Chicago or Moscow has enough attractions to justify a trip, although that’s a matter of personal preference.
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> Why not go somewhere different next time? > Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found > interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like > big cities, as they usually have more to do.
I agree – except for Paris
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Following up to Mxsmanic > You find Madrid dull? >I’ve never been to Madrid, but since it is in Spain, I have no desire to >visit it (hearing Spanish brings back unpleasant memories,
fair enough if you have something against Spain, I suppose. Do you think St Sabastian is dull then? >and Spain as a whole is much too hot a climate for my tastes).
they have winter, they also have northern Spain, as above. > The city is also too small >(2.8 million in the city, 5 million in the metropolitan area). Even Paris >is borderline, with 11 million in the metropolitan area (about the size of >Los Angeles).
a very unusual view of what might make a city interesting. St Sebastian and Santiago de Compostella both have plenty of interest, I think I would put them both ahead of a sprawling largely modern city. — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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Following up to John Stolz > Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found > interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like > big cities, as they usually have more to do. >I agree – except for Paris
Yes, nothing to do at all in Venice, Florence, Milan, Prague, — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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Following up to Mxsmanic >The only cities I’ve found >interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like >big cities, as they usually have more to do.
You find Madrid dull? — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Response:
Following up to jacob atienza > Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of >salt..
or a bucket full 
— Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Response:
> You find Madrid dull?
I’ve never been to Madrid, but since it is in Spain, I have no desire to visit it (hearing Spanish brings back unpleasant memories, and Spain as a whole is much too hot a climate for my tastes). The city is also too small (2.8 million in the city, 5 million in the metropolitan area). Even Paris is borderline, with 11 million in the metropolitan area (about the size of Los Angeles).
Response:
> Me neither, but after a couple of years of > visiting the same city I would be tempted > to try somewhere else.
If it’s a big city, you can _live_ in the city for years and still not see it all. Granted, all cities have a kind of atmosphere that tends to remain constant throughout the city, but big cities still have much to see. If you like the atmosphere, and you haven’t seen it all, you may be tempted to visit again and again. Then again, if you don’t like the atmosphere, or if you just want a change of atmosphere, then you might want to visit completely different cities. It can take decades to see all there is to see in London, New York, or Paris. However, it only takes a week or two to get the atmosphere of each of these cities. I tend to like big cities because smaller cities often have only a handful of worthwhile attractions. After you’ve seen the world’s biggest ball of twine and the giant statue of Paul Bunyan, there’s nothing left. > Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense > volume of tourism there. As such, it’s hard > to find those out of the way places where the > patrons are predominantly locals.
Try supermarkets, IKEA, and do-it-yourself stores. Tourists have little reason to visit these places, so the clients are almost always locals. Public parks often have a high proportion of locals, too. So do government offices, although the inside of a Social Security office isn’t very glamorous.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > > > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > > > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > > > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > > > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol. > Why not go somewhere different next time? > Maybe because they LIKE Paris? (I can’t imagine anyone ever being bored > with it!)
Me neither, but after a couple of years of visiting the same city I would be tempted to try somewhere else. Paris is just so hackneyed. Rome, Barcelona, Budapest, Vienna and Prague are all friendly, romantic, safe, and have immense amounts of their own form of magic to offer that it seems a shame people miss out on them. Variety being the spice of life! Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense volume of tourism there. As such, it’s hard to find those out of the way places where the patrons are predominantly locals. Each to their own. — DFM
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> Why not go somewhere different next time?
Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like big cities, as they usually have more to do.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol. > Why not go somewhere different next time?
Maybe because they LIKE Paris? (I can’t imagine anyone ever being bored with it!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > DFM
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> > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol.
I know that feeling. I was not interested in seeing Paris but got dragged along. I have been back twice. It is a great city.
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…and boy are my arms tired.
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> and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for about a week > and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I realized how much there > was to do and see and experience. I’m a first time traveler and I’ve seriously > got the bug now. Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of > salt…and it could be magical.
Was just there also last month..All the critics can stay here, lol, more room for the people that want to experience Paris..We had a great time and were treated with respect and courtesy…Cheers, Chris
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> and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol.
Why not go somewhere different next time? — DFM
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and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical.
Response:
> and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical.
When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to Paris?" Been back every year since, lol.
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Tookmour first European trip in 1985. Been back seven times since. Another trip planned this year. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for about a week > and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I realized how much there > was to do and see and experience. I’m a first time traveler and I’ve seriously > got the bug now. Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of > salt…and it could be magical.
Response:
and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical.
Response:
> and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical.
When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to Paris?" Been back every year since, lol.
Response:
Tookmour first European trip in 1985. Been back seven times since. Another trip planned this year. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for about a week > and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I realized how much there > was to do and see and experience. I’m a first time traveler and I’ve seriously > got the bug now. Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of > salt…and it could be magical.
Response:
> and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for about a week > and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I realized how much there > was to do and see and experience. I’m a first time traveler and I’ve seriously > got the bug now. Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of > salt…and it could be magical.
Was just there also last month..All the critics can stay here, lol, more room for the people that want to experience Paris..We had a great time and were treated with respect and courtesy…Cheers, Chris
Response:
> and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol.
Why not go somewhere different next time? — DFM
Response:
> > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol.
I know that feeling. I was not interested in seeing Paris but got dragged along. I have been back twice. It is a great city.
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…and boy are my arms tired.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol. > Why not go somewhere different next time?
Maybe because they LIKE Paris? (I can’t imagine anyone ever being bored with it!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > DFM
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> Why not go somewhere different next time?
Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like big cities, as they usually have more to do.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > and I had one of the greatest times of my life!! I was there for > > > about a week and a half, all other plans having evaporated when I > > > realized how much there was to do and see and experience. I’m a first > > > time traveler and I’ve seriously got the bug now. Just take all the > > > critical propaganda with a grain of salt…and it could be magical. > > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol. > Why not go somewhere different next time? > Maybe because they LIKE Paris? (I can’t imagine anyone ever being bored > with it!)
Me neither, but after a couple of years of visiting the same city I would be tempted to try somewhere else. Paris is just so hackneyed. Rome, Barcelona, Budapest, Vienna and Prague are all friendly, romantic, safe, and have immense amounts of their own form of magic to offer that it seems a shame people miss out on them. Variety being the spice of life! Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense volume of tourism there. As such, it’s hard to find those out of the way places where the patrons are predominantly locals. Each to their own. — DFM
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> Me neither, but after a couple of years of > visiting the same city I would be tempted > to try somewhere else.
If it’s a big city, you can _live_ in the city for years and still not see it all. Granted, all cities have a kind of atmosphere that tends to remain constant throughout the city, but big cities still have much to see. If you like the atmosphere, and you haven’t seen it all, you may be tempted to visit again and again. Then again, if you don’t like the atmosphere, or if you just want a change of atmosphere, then you might want to visit completely different cities. It can take decades to see all there is to see in London, New York, or Paris. However, it only takes a week or two to get the atmosphere of each of these cities. I tend to like big cities because smaller cities often have only a handful of worthwhile attractions. After you’ve seen the world’s biggest ball of twine and the giant statue of Paul Bunyan, there’s nothing left. > Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense > volume of tourism there. As such, it’s hard > to find those out of the way places where the > patrons are predominantly locals.
Try supermarkets, IKEA, and do-it-yourself stores. Tourists have little reason to visit these places, so the clients are almost always locals. Public parks often have a high proportion of locals, too. So do government offices, although the inside of a Social Security office isn’t very glamorous.
Response:
Following up to Mxsmanic >The only cities I’ve found >interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like >big cities, as they usually have more to do.
You find Madrid dull? — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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Following up to jacob atienza > Just take all the critical propaganda with a grain of >salt..
or a bucket full — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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> You find Madrid dull?
I’ve never been to Madrid, but since it is in Spain, I have no desire to visit it (hearing Spanish brings back unpleasant memories, and Spain as a whole is much too hot a climate for my tastes). The city is also too small (2.8 million in the city, 5 million in the metropolitan area). Even Paris is borderline, with 11 million in the metropolitan area (about the size of Los Angeles).
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> Why not go somewhere different next time? > Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found > interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like > big cities, as they usually have more to do.
I agree – except for Paris
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Following up to Mxsmanic > You find Madrid dull? >I’ve never been to Madrid, but since it is in Spain, I have no desire to >visit it (hearing Spanish brings back unpleasant memories,
fair enough if you have something against Spain, I suppose. Do you think St Sabastian is dull then? >and Spain as a whole is much too hot a climate for my tastes).
they have winter, they also have northern Spain, as above. > The city is also too small >(2.8 million in the city, 5 million in the metropolitan area). Even Paris >is borderline, with 11 million in the metropolitan area (about the size of >Los Angeles).
a very unusual view of what might make a city interesting. St Sebastian and Santiago de Compostella both have plenty of interest, I think I would put them both ahead of a sprawling largely modern city. — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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Following up to John Stolz > Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found > interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like > big cities, as they usually have more to do. >I agree – except for Paris
Yes, nothing to do at all in Venice, Florence, Milan, Prague, — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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> Yes, nothing to do at all in Venice, > Florence, Milan, Prague, Budapest, Vienna, > Amsterdamn…
They have to have enough to do to justify a trip. For example, I’ve seen travel books that claim that the Louvre _alone_ is worth a trip to Paris, but I do not agree, not by a long shot. There are a couple of "main attractions" in the museum, and you can see them all in about two hours, but unless you’re an art freak who absolutely must see everything, I can’t imagine the Louvre museum justifying a trip to Paris (except from the suburbs, maybe). In fact, I can’t think of any single sight anywhere that justifies a long-distance trip. However, a city with lots of interesting sites overall may justify a trip. This is certainly the case for a number of the world’s largest cities, depending on what you like.
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> Do you think St Sabastian is dull then?
Never been there, no desire to visit. With a population of 180,000, I don’t see how it could possibly justify a trip. > they have winter, they also have northern > Spain, as above.
I watch the weather in Europe. Spain is too hot for much of the year. Even southern France is too hot in certain seasons. > a very unusual view of what might make a city > interesting.
It is based on the notion that no single attraction justifies a trip. To justify a trip, you need multiple attractions, and the larger the city, the more likely that it will have many attractions in one place. Paris is a great example of this, as are some other large cities. There are exceptions to the rule. Some people like Venice even though it is not large, and I don’t know that Chicago or Moscow has enough attractions to justify a trip, although that’s a matter of personal preference.
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> Following up to John Stolz >> Some cities are more interesting than others. The only cities I’ve found >> interesting in Europe are Paris and London, but then again, I tend to like >> big cities, as they usually have more to do. >I agree – except for Paris > Yes, nothing to do at all in Venice, Florence, Milan, Prague,
Don’t forget the dull-as-hell Istanbul, Krakow, Copenhagen… — DFM
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[snip] > I tend to like big cities because smaller cities often have only a handful > of worthwhile attractions. After you’ve seen the world’s biggest ball of > twine and the giant statue of Paul Bunyan, there’s nothing left.
I tend to like ‘em either really large, or fairly small. In the latter case only for a day or so however. Even if there is no ball of twine, simple features of the infrastructure are interesting to me. What people drive, how they park them, do they have garages, what’s in them, where are their churches, how old are they, how many restaurants/bars/grocery stores are there. These kinds of things are easily observed often in very small towns. As towns grow, you have to start covering more ground to observe the "whole town". Of course, once you get to really large towns, they are often formed of a bunch of small neighborhoods which have the same feel as those small towns in many ways. > Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense > volume of tourism there. As such, it’s hard > to find those out of the way places where the > patrons are predominantly locals. > Try supermarkets, IKEA, and do-it-yourself stores. Tourists have little > reason to visit these places, so the clients are almost always locals.
I’ve started making it a point to visit grocery stores in my travels. They are interesting in a cultural sense, if nothing else to see what consumes the most square footage. I’ve also begun to find they are great places to get a simple lunch. I also find it both a bit funny and convienent that they are great places to buy simple gifts for friends back home. A box of chocolate cookies in a box all in french is vastly cheaper than anything at the duty free, and since often what I’m probably getting is the "store brand" it is also something they’d never be able to get back home. But they are "french" cookies!!!! > Public parks often have a high proportion of locals, too. So do government > offices, although the inside of a Social Security office isn’t very > glamorous.
There is often a "business district" in large towns that at lunch time, or in some cultures early evening, where it will be absolutely packed with locals. I find them excellent chances to see locals "in their natural habitat".
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Following up to Mxsmanic > Do you think St Sabastian is dull then? >Never been there, no desire to visit. With a population of 180,000, I don’t >see how it could possibly justify a trip.
Sorry to disillusions you, but size does not always matter. San Sebastian(SS) has a beautiful bay, probably the best food in Europe if not the world, an interesting old quarter with certainly the best tapas in Spain. Not to mention a unique culture, language and sports. Bilbao has probably twice the population of SS and it has a Guggenheim Museum, is it more interesting than SS? No! To dismiss SS on the basis of population is similar to dimissing Bethlehems significance to Christianity on the basis of its small population. In my experience some of the smallest places in the UK (Wasdale Head for instance) are also some of the best. > they have winter, they also have northern > Spain, as above. >I watch the weather in Europe. Spain is too hot for much of the year. Even >southern France is too hot in certain seasons.
As I said, winter happens every year and is reasonably predictable. Its all a matter of timing it so you arrive in the cool bit. Not difficult for the discerning tourist. — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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Following up to Mxsmanic >In fact, I can’t think of any single sight anywhere that justifies a >long-distance trip.
Everest >However, a city with lots of interesting sites overall >may justify a trip. This is certainly the case for a number of the world’s >largest cities, depending on what you like.
I doubt there is a constant ratio between "sites" and size. Los Angeles and Mexico City at one end possibly and Venice, Florence and such like at the other. In any case the essence of a place and its worth as a destination have little to do with the quantity of its tourist sites. For instance when I walked to the source of the Thames I didnt visit a single "site" (obviously I walked past a number) the value was in the evolution (or should that be devolution?) of the river and England from industrial to city centre to suburb to rural. (BTW The first man to jump the river kitty was a good idea and in practice goes to the alert rather than athletic). — Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso London walks & the British hills "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
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> > > > When my wife said France for the honeymoon, I asked "Do we have to go to > > > Paris?" Been back every year since, lol. > > Why not go somewhere different next time? > Me neither, but after a couple of years of visiting the same city I would be > tempted to try somewhere else. Paris is just so hackneyed. Rome, Barcelona, > Budapest, Vienna and Prague are all friendly, romantic, safe, and have > immense amounts of their own form of magic to offer that it seems a shame > people miss out on them. Variety being the spice of life!
I don’t know whether it applies to any individual, but it should be noted that returning to Paris every year does not preclude visiting other places as well. I return to Paris _at_ _least_ once a year — though for me it is now a short trip. And I have friends from the US who have returned to Paris multiple times, though not _only_ Paris: as a major transatlantic air hub, it is easy to fly into Paris for a few days, then go on to other locations. > Also, I find Paris suffers from the immense volume of tourism there. As > such, it’s hard to find those out of the way places where the patrons are > predominantly locals. Each to their own.
FWIW, I haven’t found this to be the case. Even in the center of the city, there are bars and cafes off on little back streets where the patrons are (or at least seem to be) predominantly locals. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org> <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html>
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> Sorry to disillusions you, but size does not > always matter.
It does to me. > San Sebastian(SS) has a beautiful bay, probably > the best food in Europe if not the world, an > interesting old quarter with certainly the best > tapas in Spain. Not to mention a unique culture, > language and sports.
Ho-hum. > To dismiss SS on the basis of population is > similar to dimissing Bethlehems significance to > Christianity on the basis of its small > population.
I’m not a religious person, so Bethlehem means nothing to me.
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I have neighbors in Virginia who > only think "myjob" when they think DC and have never been to DuPont Circle > for the evening, or to a Smithsonian Musuam.