Travelling France

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"PARIS (Reuters) – Gangs of youths torched 1,300 vehicles overnight in the 10th consecutive night of violence in Paris’s poor suburbs and major French towns, despite the deployment of thousands of extra police. Cars were burned out in the historic center of Paris for the first time on Saturday night. In the normally quiet Normandy town of Evreux, a shopping mall, 50 vehicles, a post office and two schools went up in flames. Authorities have so far found no way beyond appeals and more police to address a problem with complex social, economic and racial causes. Evreux mayor Jean-Louis Debre, a confidant of President Jacques Chirac and speaker of the lower house of parliament, told France Info radio: "To those responsible for the violence, I want to say: Be serious … If you want to live in a fairer, more fraternal society, this is not how to go about it." The deaths 10 days ago of two youths apparently fleeing police ignited pent up frustrations among young men, many of them Muslims of North and black African origin, at racism, unemployment, their marginal place in French society and their treatment by the police. "Many youths have never seen their parents work and couldn’t hold down a job if they got one," said Claude Chevallier, manager of a burned-out carpet depot in the rundown Paris suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois. But authorities now say the rolling nightly riots are being organized via the Internet and mobile phones, and have pointed the finger at drug traffickers and Islamist militants. Overnight, 1,295 vehicles were torched across France, the highest total so far, police said. An extra 2,300 officers have been drafted in. Seven police helicopters buzzed over the Paris region through the night, filming disturbances and directing mobile squads to incidents. Overnight, police made 349 arrests. The number of incidents in the Paris region was similar to the night before, but in the provinces it was up sharply. TARNISHED IMAGE The violence has tarnished France’s image abroad, forcing Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin to cancel a trip to Canada, while Russia and the United States have warned their citizens to avoid Paris’s troubled suburbs. Villepin has combined a call for an end to the riots with dialogue with community leaders, youngsters and local officials, and has promised an action plan for 750 tough neighborhoods. "I’ll make proposals as early as this week," the weekly Journal du Dimanche quoted him as saying. But it remained unclear what could stop the violence, though some opposition parties have suggested a symbolic measure — the resignation of Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy. Accused of stoking passions by calling troublemakers "scum," Sarkozy has ignored calls to quit. A survey published on Sunday indicated his public image was holding up, even if many disapproved of his strong language. Villepin also has ambitions to be the right wing’s presidential candidate in 2007 and has tried to position himself as a much more consensual figure than Sarkozy; the effect on the crisis on his ratings is still unclear. With no end in sight to the nights of wailing sirens, acrid smoke, stone-throwing and destruction, residents from all ethnic backgrounds are tiring of the unrest. "My kids can’t sleep at night," said a mother named Samia in Aulnay-sous-Bois. "They hear explosions, they see fires and they think they’re in a war. When the slightest thing happens, they get anxious and say ‘Mama, what’s going on?"’" http://reuters.myway.com/article/20051106/2005-11-06T121732Z_01_MAR22…

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>racism, unemployment, their marginal place in French society and their treatment by the >police.

This is being spun as a Muslim thing, but it’s not — it’s economic. They aren’t "Muslim Insurgents" — these riots are more along the lines of Detriot and Watts in the 1960s.  Those lasted a few days too.

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> >racism, unemployment, their marginal place in French society and their treatment by the >police. > This is being spun as a Muslim thing, but it’s not — it’s economic. > They aren’t "Muslim Insurgents" — these riots are more along the lines > of Detriot and Watts in the 1960s.  Those lasted a few days too.

Yeah; that’s how the "leaders" over there are trying to deal with it, anyway — "understand" them, ‘respect’ them, and oh by the way, make up more social programs to give them shit. Because they’re nice people, they’re just poor. Don’t poor people everywhere burn cars by the hundreds every night for weeks? Suuuuure… it happens all the time in all those countries in Africa where they don’t have a fucking grain of rice because their fucking racist dictators want ALL the money. That’s what they do *all the time* over there — they burn fucking cars. That’s why you can see Africa from space at night. Yup. Let’s see how far this thing has to go before the liberals running everything over there realize that all they have to do is give the thugs ALL the money, and let THEM run everything. THEN they’ll have peace, and all OUR liberals can move there and call it utopia. Shee-it, Lars

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> it’s economic. > They aren’t "Muslim Insurgents" — these riots are more along the lines > of Detriot and Watts in the 1960s

And Brixton/Manchester/Birmingham in the 80’s.

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> that’s how the "leaders" over there are trying to deal with it, > anyway — "understand" them, ‘respect’ them

Understanding and respect. Wouldn’t that be nice. Yet you use the words as derogatory phrase.

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> >racism, unemployment, their marginal place in French society and their

treatment by the >police. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is being spun as a Muslim thing, but it’s not — it’s economic. > They aren’t "Muslim Insurgents" — these riots are more along the lines > of Detriot and Watts in the 1960s.  Those lasted a few days too. > Yeah; that’s how the "leaders" over there are trying to deal with it, > anyway — "understand" them, ‘respect’ them, and oh by the way, make up > more social programs to give them shit. Because they’re nice people, > they’re just poor. Don’t poor people everywhere burn cars by the > hundreds every night for weeks? Suuuuure… it happens all the time in > all those countries in Africa where they don’t have a fucking grain of > rice because their fucking racist dictators want ALL the money. That’s > what they do *all the time* over there — they burn fucking cars. > That’s why you can see Africa from space at night. > Yup. Let’s see how far this thing has to go before the liberals running > everything over there realize that all they have to do is give the > thugs ALL the money, and let THEM run everything. THEN they’ll have > peace, and all OUR liberals can move there and call it utopia. > Shee-it, > Lars

Where immigrants have no incentive for cultural conformity and real assimiliation there will eventually be a social divide that expresses itself the way it has in France.  Splinter groups eventually become large disenfranchised minority groups with a grievance against the parent society. We don’t raise our kids to be outsiders (well, most of us, anyway).  Why should society encourage ethnic minorities to stay outside the cultural mainstream and cripple themselves socially and economically? Jeff

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> > that’s how the "leaders" over there are trying to deal with it, > anyway — "understand" them, ‘respect’ them > Understanding and respect. Wouldn’t that be nice. Yet you use the words > as derogatory phrase.

I use it with contempt for it as a strategy to stop riots that have already begun. If you think that was so wrongheaded of *me*, then why don’t you tell me WHY ISN’T IT WORKING? After all, he called for those things *a week ago*, didn’t he? Lars

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Yo Lertz… I f you knew what the fuck you were talking about, it would be nice.

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Lars you are truly an idiot. "It’s not a political revolution or a Muslim revolution," said Rezzoug [caretaker of the municipal gymnasium and soccer field]. "There’s a lot of rage. Through this burning, they’re saying, ‘I exist, I’m here.’ " As I understand, there’s 60% unemployment in the area where the riots are occuring. Mr Soul

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